Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 0:00

Hi everyone. Welcome back to Hashimoto's Nutrition Rx, the podcast where we dive deep into the real solutions for managing Hashimoto's thyroid health and autoimmune conditions. I'm your host, natalia Senzo, and today we're shaking things up with two incredible guests who are here to flip everything you thought you knew about healing your thyroid and losing weight. In this episode, I'm joined by Josh and Jeannie Rubin, the dynamic duo behind EastWest Healing and the real food gangsters. They're not your average health experts. Josh and Jeannie have developed a radical approach that blends ancient wisdom with modern science to restore metabolic health, balance hormones and, yes, even help with weight loss.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 0:50

If you've been stuck in a circle of frustration, wondering why you can't lose weight, why your energy is always low or why the traditional methods just aren't working for you, this episode is exactly what you need. Trust me, working for you, this episode is exactly what you need. Trust me, you're going to want to stay with us until the end, because that's where we drop the real game-changing tips that can transform your health. We're talking about gut health, the nervous system role in healing, how stress is secretly sabotaging your thyroid, and why fixing your metabolism is the key to long-term wellness. So if you're ready to get radical. Stay tuned, because you don't want to miss the juicy details we've got coming your way, so let's get started. Welcome, josh and Jeannie.

Josh Rubin: 1:38

Thank you.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 1:39

It's quite an intro.

Jeannie Rubin: 1:41

Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here today. What an intro. Yeah, thank you for having us. We're excited to be here today.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 1:45

Yes, thank you so much for dedicating this hour to share your knowledge and wisdom. I remember first time I saw you guys on Instagram. First I loved the Instagram name Gangster Still catch him like oh, that's interesting. So what I said in the introduction that you guys found a radical way, a new way to really help people. So that's why I couldn't wait to have you on the podcast Now, before we dive deep into our conversation. I'm sure our listeners would like to learn a little bit more about you guys. You both have such a unique approach to health and healing. Can you share with us how you got into the wellness space and what inspired you to focus on real food, nutrition and metabolic health?

Josh Rubin: 2:31

We both have completely two different backgrounds and we'll summarize it because it's two of us. I grew up in a house with a mother who was a nurse, a dad who was an x-ray tech. He worked in Mass General, which is a big hospital in downtown Boston. So I grew up in Mass General playing with syringes, playing in an x-ray room, bedpans clean ones, of course and I grew up with my mother being a nurse and also she was head of a dietician clinic. So I remember playing in a clinic with staplers. So I came from a family of that. My uncle and aunt were OTs, so I just naturally went into that. I went into OT initially and did OT for about eight years and then I got introduced to the Tech Institute. That's where we met and I went through his certs and taught for him all over the world, then getting into TCM and osteopathic school in Canada it led me where I'm at today.

Josh Rubin: 3:20

Every piece of the journey got me here. It wasn't like, okay, I'm going to do this and forget about it and move on. It's everything we do today and everything we study. We're like, oh, I like these pieces, but not that I won't dislike the other pieces, it's just, these are the pieces I want to extrapolate to help me grow and evolve, and that's what got me here today and meeting Jeannie, and I think our approach has evolved over 25 years. Collectively, we've been doing this work 50 years and I think it's funny. In the beginning you said radical and I'm not like contradicting you because I know you're trying to say, but really I think what everyone else is doing online is radical. I think what we're doing is really getting people back to simplicity, fun and what true health really is, which is living and getting outside and being one with nature and eating food. And what's funny is, to a lot of people, that is radical. It's really not. It's life, it's living.

Jeannie Rubin: 4:16

I think that's what got me here. I moved away from my family when I was very young. I moved 2,500 miles across the ocean. Family when I was very young, I moved 2,500 miles across the ocean and in that experience I got to really tune into myself and learned. It really amplified and illuminated this idea that environment is everything right.

Jeannie Rubin: 4:37

I grew up in a home that was very chaotic. It was a broken home. We were teenagers raising teenagers. There was a lot going on there, so I needed to go away and that's what I did, and that's when I discovered myself. I discovered spirituality. I discovered and experienced my body that was pretty much sympathetic from the point of conception and all the way through my adult life hormone dysregulation, you name it low energy, all the things.

Jeannie Rubin: 5:02

And then I moved to the islands, where the climate was very different, the food was very fresh, the lifestyle was very simple. I was away from my family and again got to explore those parts and pieces of myself that I didn't know. And coming home, I knew that I needed to position myself in a place of health and because it's not where I come from, it's not what I was taught, so I needed to put myself and surround myself in that environment. So I did, and that kind of led me to the Czech Institute and then down to the craniosacral path and understanding the body at a very deep level.

Jeannie Rubin: 5:34

Nervous system healing was something that I was always looking for and I was always very interested in how the body communicated as a whole, so that's what I was always searching for. So for me it was a very personal journey in finding my own self and finding my own health, and it just led me down this path very intuitively and naturally, and I feel like I've been guided every step of the way, and Josh and I are often asked how we got into this work, and I think, again, the work found us. It's just something that we've been doing. It's very natural, it's part of who we are.

Josh Rubin: 6:07

And I'm not here to talk down to what anyone does, right. But life is about perception, right? We could see a movie and you'd be like, oh my God, that was awesome. I'm like I hated that. It was ridiculous, right.

Jeannie Rubin: 6:20

And it's a journey.

Josh Rubin: 6:21

To me, what's fun and exciting about what we do is and it's a journey to me what's fun and exciting about what we do is it's I forget the rest of the quote, but paul check once said to me it's he who could do the most with the least. And to me that's the exciting part is I could rehab someone's back without any devices or balls or anything it's like with what we do. That's the beauty of it and we're syncing with nature and it's so exciting to see people come from this place of health being so complicated because of the labs and the supplements, and it's just getting worse and worse. And they come to us and we see this in our nourish nervous system program and I'm not even kidding within two to four weeks of coming into the program, we're seeing people have not even little successes, amazing successes. We're not saying they're healed up to 50 years, but amazing successes. And it's just exciting. It's still exciting to this day because we're teaching people the simplicity. We're teaching people to live again. We're not teaching people to heal because to us that's associated with lab supplements, modality or more, and ignoring who you are, your story and reconnecting with yourself. We're doing the opposite and it's exciting for us every single day.

Josh Rubin: 7:30

It's hard, we get it. It's hard for people to wrap their head around because we have literally been doing this philosophy for 25 years and when we started to use the word metabolism online a long time ago, no one knew what it was. We used to have to define it over and over again and talk about it. No one knew what it was Like. We used to have to define it over and over again and talk about it. No one knew what it was. Of course, now people have tuned into it, but it's very exciting to us because it's underneath the surface. It's so deep and scientific, but on the surface it's so simple. People DM us all the time, the sun, and what do I do and how do I go? I'm like go outside, like we overthink everything. It's not complicated and I know it's hard when you're sick, but it's not and that's what's exciting to us.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 8:10

That's why this podcast episode called thyroid healing simplified or healing simplified, because I think a lot of people in this, on Instagram, on any platform, they complicate things. So I'm glad that you guys come from such different backgrounds and I think that's why you're bringing this fresh approach to healing and I can't wait for our audience to hear it more in details. So I know your approach to healing is centered around metabolic health. Can you explain what metabolic health means and why it's crucial for anyone to pay attention to?

Josh Rubin: 8:48

I think when it comes to metabolism, a lot of people think like fast oxidizer, slow oxidizer or burning of fuel or metabolic rate. That's not really what we're talking about, what we're truly talking about when we talk about metabolism. Of course there's a lot underneath it, but truly what we're talking about is the cell. Now, of course we can't go around market that, because that's pretty boring and most people don't even know what it is. They don't even know that they come into this world as a cell and it keeps replicating, replicating, and you are a conglomeration of cells, as is your liver and so forth, and every organ or system depending on has cells, but they have a certain number of mitochondria and even more because it's a very important organ or gland, like the heart of course has a lot, the uterus and so forth. But really what we're trying to do is two different things, and the first is support people to live in the way, to help their cells to produce energy. We don't have to go into the science of that, but the way we explain it is it's like making money, saving money, spending money and having fun or paying off your debt at the same time while you're doing that. If you have a job and you can live that way. It feels really good. That's like producing energy right and that's what our body wants to do and that's how it creates health, because when your cells produce energy, there's byproducts that not only allow you to have energy, but it keeps the cycle going Right and we become more metabolic. That's why the sun, that's why food, that's why movement through piece of electricity and all these things charge ourselves. It's not just food that help charge our battery, in a sense.

Josh Rubin: 10:23

The other thing we're trying to do is most people are coming to us, of course, not in that state. Most people have debt. They're living beyond their means. They are using their credit card to live off of, but they don't make as much money as they're spending Right. Most people at some point in their life can relate to that. I can relate to that because when I was in college I learned what a credit card was. I didn't really know what it was, but I was just going out and using it until I got my bills. I was like that's debt.

Josh Rubin: 10:50

But the problem is our body has systems to counteract some oxidative stress. Like little fire extinguishers to put out the fires. You convert thyroid hormone. There's oxidation that occurs and we need those fire extinguishers. Our body has a system to actually work with that, to allow our body to flow in a sense. When that builds, we have increased oxidative stress. That becomes inflammation. It's like a kick up, like you just lit a fire to roast marshmallows and now you're noticing like half the backyard's on fire. We have inflammation, we have a problem and then over time we have calcification, like now 500,000 acres of burning.

Josh Rubin: 11:29

Most people are in these states and they're taking things to reduce inflammation instead of limiting things that are causing inflammation, and we're trying to get people to pay off that energetic debt over time, to get them back to a place of decompensation where their bodies are now producing energy.

Josh Rubin: 11:45

So we're helping them put out the fire, in a sense, to get to that place. Because here's the thing you can take the most expensive supplements, work with the most expensive people, you can do whatever you want, spend all your money, but if your cells are not producing energy, you're wasting your time and your energy and your hard-earned money, because when your cells flip to this other other state, this is when symptoms start to occur and disease starts to occur. Right, you cannot fix that with an adaptogen. You cannot fix that with vitamin d. You cannot fix that with iron, with copper, even with the thyroid medication, you cannot fix that. Your habits and behaviors and things we can talk about directly influence your cell and if you don't change that, you don't change your state. Nothing's going to change and that's why a lot of people are suffering.

Jeannie Rubin: 12:33

And that was the pattern that we saw over and over again was everyone coming in and we had boxes of labs that people were giving to us and they were coming in with zero energy, they had nothing to give right and they were coming in this very chaotic physiological state in which no healing can happen, nor is there any energy to allow that healing to happen. So we have to shift that state, we have to get that body out of chaos and when we think about root cause, energy production is at the root of everything.

Josh Rubin: 13:06

Like.

Jeannie Rubin: 13:07

Josh says, if you can't produce energy, you're automatically producing inflammation. So how do we get that regulation? And through getting that regulation we started seeing the nervous system start to shift. We started seeing people being more having that metabolic flexibility, moving in and out of that, those different nervous system states which were intended to be able to do, but most people were heavily locked in that state.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 13:31

Absolutely, and because a lot of people would and you said it so beautifully and you simplified it in terms having like a, having a credit card and running spending too much money or too much energy because metabolic health is not just about weight but also about how your cells, organs and system are all functioning in sync and I think that's the key word.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 13:55

And for someone with Hashimoto's and I have Hashimoto's myself, I've had it for over a decade and I think that's how I was forced into this relationship and I always say I chose this path, but I think the path actually chose me, just like you guys. I say the word forced, but I think it gave me purpose in life. This diagnosis gave me purpose in life. So for someone with Hashimoto's, maintaining metabolic health is even more crucial because thyroid hormones are directly involved in what Regulating that word metabolism and when your thyroid isn't functioning properly, as is common in Hashimoto's, it can slow down your metabolism, making it harder to manage weight, energy levels and just overall health. So I completely agree with you that metabolic health should be our main concern. And, jeannie, you emphasize the importance of addressing the root cause of the nervous system imbalance. What are some common triggers of nervous system dysfunction that people should be aware of.

Jeannie Rubin: 15:00

Like I said, as we were working with energy production and we started gaining regulation in the system, we started shifting the physiology back in the balance, that building of resilience. We started to see again this ability to fluctuate into parasympathetic or sympathetic, depending upon what we need, because we need both of them at different times. The sympathetic nervous system is just as important, but we weren't seeing that flexibility. But I think when it comes to nervous system, what we're seeing today is that people are in this energy deficit for so long and they're underlying that. Our life experiences, our traumas, big D's and little T's, as a lot of people like to refer to them. As is again, it could just be lifetime or it could be many years of being in metabolic stress, low energy production, just a culture that is moving so fast paced, so much confusion, so much information, so much fear, right Uncertainty.

Jeannie Rubin: 15:55

I think all of these things are causing more and more imbalance in people that we don't know how to find our way back home and we don't have to do any one thing, but we have to look at the way things do trigger us. What are the things in our life that serve us? What are the things in our life that take energy away from us. And we have to look at the key components of what brings energy to our bodies in the first place. And we look at light, we look at nutrition, we look at movement, we look at breath, we look at sound water, I think, are the key ones. But we have to utilize those resources to energize and as we do that we build resilience and as we do that we bring awareness. We're doing all of these things all at one time to help tone down that nervous system state.

Josh Rubin: 16:41

I think the difference between what we do and I don't want to say everyone, but it feels like everyone, I know there's other people that kind of do very similar stuff is a lot of people like to segmentalize the body I have a thyroid issue, I have a nervous system issue. I think to some degree allows us to identify what we're feeling. On the other end, allows us to diagnose ourselves which is really dangerous. But remember this allows us to diagnose ourselves which is really dangerous. But remember this you can't just have a thyroid problem, you can't just have a nervous system problem. You cannot just have a gut problem, right, if you have a thyroid problem, you have a pituitary problem. You have a hypothalamus problem, right, you have a nervous system problem. You have an adrenal problem. You have a gut problem. You have a gonad problem.

Josh Rubin: 17:23

I could keep going and show you the connection right, and I think this is a huge problem because we're still segmentalizing, even when we're going holistic, when you go back to the cell and you understand, like you said, thyroid hormone, it does play a role in metabolism. But we have to go further and understand that our habits and behaviors influence what thyroid hormone does, which has an influence on the cell, but it's not the most important thing. But in a sense, really, what I'm trying to say is we have to get away from this. I have this problem and understand that it's your habits, behaviors, your experiences that drive that. Because, jeannie was saying, sunlight is a primary giver, more than anything anyone's ever taught you to direct what your cells are going to do. And then we have nutrition. You have cold red light, which is really this is getting outside and we can talk about that and sound. Those are the things biologically that influence your cells to produce energy, right. So if we're not getting outside, in a sense, and getting in the sun, and we can talk about why uva is so key with the thyroid, but it doesn't matter if we take a medication, it doesn't matter if we have a thyroid problem, when we look at it like this, we're segmentalizing the body. But when we just say I need to change my habits, I need to become more aware, like Jeannie was saying, and focus on the things that are working for me and do the opposite of what I'm doing right now, to influence my body in a different direction and reshape my biology, everything begins to happen. If you give the body what it needs. Nature will do the rest.

Josh Rubin: 18:53

And this is why so many people, when they go through our program, they're like I wasn't even trying to lose 15 pounds and I lost weight. I wasn't even trying. I'm sleeping like a baby, but I wasn't even trying to sleep. I came here with hormone problems. It's this mentality of we have to fix the system. But the body is a system of systems and we have to start living in a way to support that, and that's really what our work is about. It's not the segment, it's not even truly just about the nervous system. Of course we have to market something.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 19:22

And it's beautifully named. It's very catchy system.

Jeannie Rubin: 19:24

of course, we have to market something and it's beautifully named it's very catchy, but it's.

Josh Rubin: 19:28

It's still. It still goes back to the cell because of what we're doing in the sense of, for instance, to give you like one example, when we don't use light to regulate the daytime and nighttime programs, because there's many of them, leptin can't dock at night. And if leptin can't dock, you become a full-time sugar burner. This is why a lot of people gain weight PCOS I have reverse D3, blood sugar issues, high A1C, pcos, high homocysteine, high CRP, can keep going.

Josh Rubin: 19:56

But what happens now is you become in the scarcity state because leptin needs to dock in the hypothalamus to say, hey, here's, I'm the accountant, I want to tell you what's coming in, what hasn't coming in, what you need, and so forth. So if it can't dock, the body says I need to hold on to stuff. I don't know what's coming in or when it's coming in. So now, essentially, you can get locked almost in a sympathetic or even dorsal, vagal state. Right, because we're not getting outside. I'm not saying nervous system therapy or somatics are not important, but remember the foundation has to be there, as humans and every human needs sunlight to thrive. It's a physiological fact, right? It's when we use these terms, we're using them really loosely like nervous system right. It's again just connecting from that and learning that if we just create an environment right to support our body, to create health we'll create health and it will regulate.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 20:55

Absolutely. So we established the importance of taking care of the body as the whole, and I think that's why I really wanted to have you on my podcast, not necessarily just talk about Hashimoto's, because you guys don't specialize in it, but I think this information is important to anyone to hear. It doesn't matter what disease they have, or maybe they just want to fine tune their health. So again, thank you for being here. I think this information is so important and more people need to hear that. So we've established that the nervous system has these triggers right. We mentioned chronic stress. We of course, know about nutrient deficiencies, magnesium or B vitamins, poor sleep, gut health and all that stuff and it's so prevalent in someone with Hashimoto's. All these, not just bad habits, but these signs and symptoms are constant things that drag our or slow down our healing journey. So we know the triggers. If someone wants to sign up for your program healing simplified treating nervous system, how can someone tell if their nervous system is out of balance? Dr Anneke Vandenbroek.

Jeannie Rubin: 22:04

I think, with a lot of what you just mentioned. So here we're talking symptoms again, it's all these gut health, but we don't have to realize that those are being created by the input. If we have chronic gut issues, if we have chronic immune issues, if we have chronic hormone issues, we know that there's an imbalance in the whole system, in the whole system and that's a chronic stress to the body. And when there's a chronic stress to the body for periods of time it becomes chronic. That is going to create an imbalance within that nervous system. That HPA is going to be neurologically hardwired towards a pace of fight or flight that's how our brains are wired is for survival, Right. So we have to look at that first and we have to look at what are all the things, what's all the information coming out and, as Josh was speaking about, how do we start to get the proper signaling to our body right? But coming back to your question is, if you have any one of those things, we know and it's been chronic that there is dysregulation in the system.

Josh Rubin: 23:07

If you don't all of us.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 23:08

We all need to sign up.

Jeannie Rubin: 23:10

I think that most people need to find ways in living. What our program is about finding a way to live that helps you regulate in the world, based on all your parts and pieces and all of that input is how your body is manifesting that information.

Josh Rubin: 23:28

And it's not about just fixing the nervous system. We have people that go through that lower their antibodies from 2000 to 145 and four weeks, sometimes longer, of course. So we work with people with thyroid problems, hashimoto's Graves, everything. And again, as a culture, I think we have to start getting away from diagnosing ourselves. Or, if we are going down that path, because, remember, let's use thyroid, for example, because we keep talking about it, everyone thinks that the thyroid hormone is regulated by glucose. We need to eat carbs. Yeah, there's some truth to that, but it's really ball that rolled really hard and kept growing and growing. And unfortunately, there's some truth to that, but it's not like the biggest truth that needs to be focused on. And that stress affects the thyroid. Of course it does. Stress affects every system in your body, not just the thyroid.

Josh Rubin: 24:18

But if we understand light signaling, there's many facets to this. For instance, we live in a world where we're inundated by blue light. People are uv deficient, right, and you can tell by how people are and how they act and what they do, because most people wake up, flip on their lights. They don't go outside. They go outside to work, wear sunglasses inside all day. They leave work, sunglasses are on, go to the gym, come home right, we're always in front of computers or into lights.

Josh Rubin: 24:43

The problem is that blue light is found nowhere in nature by itself and that blue light activates the same receptors through the same retinal hypothalamic tract in the brain. But it pushes you sympathetic because it spikes cortisol. So when you wake up, if you see sunrise, this is red infrared, this is red light therapy. Right, this is free red light therapy. Right out your front door you get that red infrared light that does two things it activates intracellular melatonin, which is a huge, huge antioxidant to help you start putting out the fire and decompensating.

Josh Rubin: 25:17

Right, we don't need all these supplements to do that. We can step right outside. We see the impact of this with people in our program. Two, that sunrise begins to activate the HP axis, hpt axis, hpg axis, how we start dimming up cortisol in the morning. So what happens when we dim up cortisol versus spike cortisol? We can think of a million examples. But with a thyroid, we know that now we're taking the burden off the adrenals and now we're not affecting thyroid hormone conversion and more, or causing excitement of the immune system or suppression in the immune system, but we're also supporting that cortisol melatonin relationship, which is key, because when does the thyroid repair? Not during the day it repairs at night.

Josh Rubin: 26:03

What does it need to do this? It needs melatonin, because that is what directs cell optosis and autophagy. Two is UVA, which is mid-morning. Why is UVA important? Those UV photons? What they do is they activate aromatic amino acids in your eyes and skin and you convert them into neurotransmitters right, tyrosine, thyroid, dopamine, mood, depression, depression or feeling better. You produce more palm c, which activates beta endorphins. You produce more serotonin, which activates the endocrine cells in the gut to help with gut motility, and docs to become melatonin. So it's like when we start using these, I did, I said tyrosine thyroid, and that's why these times of the days are so important, among more?

Josh Rubin: 26:49

because here's the thing you can take the thyroid meds. You can take the thyroid glandulars. You can eat carbohydrates locked to the medications right, and they can't get away from them or change their doses because the signaling isn't changing. You need inputs right To change outputs right. You need different habits to reshape your biology, and that's truly what we're trying to do. It's not. You have a nervous system problem. Let's do this, go ahead. Sorry, speaking just because we're sitting to do.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 27:27

It's not. You have a nervous system problem.

Josh Rubin: 27:28

Let's do this Now go ahead.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 27:29

Sorry, speaking just because we're sitting in front of the computer and you said habits reshaping the way I'm reshaping my habits because I can wake up and just go outside and spend my first 20 minutes in real sunlight. First, I want your input on that. But what do you think about the blue light blocking screens? I have one on my computer. I want your input on that. But what do you think about the blue light blocking screens? I have one on my computer, I have one on my phone and the second thing I bought on Amazon for $34 is the light that I turned on as soon as I wake up, and the first thing I do I get on my computer with a cup of coffee, but I have that light shining in my eyes to stimulate everything that you talked about. What are your thoughts on those things? I think you're doing.

Jeannie Rubin: 28:11

What a lot of people do yes. I think that's really true, and I think what Josh is going to say there's nothing that can replace natural light.

Josh Rubin: 28:19

Yeah, I think what you're doing is great, because any change creates change Absolutely, and we all have to change it in a degree that allows us to be consistent and compliant. We do that over time. It creates change, but we also have to evolve and as humans we get very comfortable. We get very comfortable in our ways. Now here's a question I ask everyone, right, and some people have a very legitimate answer and I understand and I'll answer your question about what you're doing in a second.

Josh Rubin: 28:45

But why can't someone wake up and see the sunlight? Why can't someone wake up and be outside for one minute? Because, to me, if we truly want to heal and support our body to do what it's designed to do right, in a sense, I can go on my computer and my phone why can't someone go outside for one minute at sunrise and see the sun before they do anything? Because the difference is it's not just about protecting yourself from blue light, it's not. It's important, right, you wake up, you put those orange ones on. I think that's wonderful. We tell people in the winter to do that, but we're still uv deficient, right? Because what signals our body is sunlight, it's information it tells our body. It's really what that sunrise does is it tells those melatonin receptors to stop activating in the suprachiasmatic nucleus. Why so? Cortisol can come up, so we can have an appetite and get our computer systems going for the day. That's what that signaling does. Same thing with breakfast at sunrise it's information, it's not just nutrients. So when we don't see sunlight and we're wearing blue blockers, that's great. You're not getting the signaling right.

Josh Rubin: 29:54

So I think it's great. But I think it would be even better if you're like I actually wake up and go outside at sunrise for a minute or two, but then I come in and I have to go on my phone and I wear my blue blockers and I eat breakfast and then I have my coffee. So we're not asking people, we don't do all this at once, but we're asking people to change, because it's really simple, when we change, we create physiological change, because your external environment dictates your internal environment. So I think what you're doing is great, but at the same time, again, that's like saying I can't eat food because food is another way that what helps ourselves produce energy.

Josh Rubin: 30:35

Same thing with movement. Same thing with cold. Same thing with red light. Same thing with breathing. That'd be like saying I don't have time to breathe. These are all. There's five or six ways our cells are activated to produce energy without. Without them, we're only as strong as a weakest link. So I guess that's my question for you, like, what stops you, and you might have a legitimate answer how come at sunrise you can't get outside for one minute?

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 31:01

My answer is very long, so I'm going to email you guys.

Josh Rubin: 31:04

Okay.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 31:05

But basically I am not a morning person. I go to bed very late and I've been doing it my whole life and I love it. And somebody, a very wise person, said you will find time for what most important for you or what is important. So obviously for me that's not as important as other things that I'm doing in life and I'm not perfect and I'm not striving to be, and I'm actually trying to be less perfect, to put less pressure on myself, because I'm already doing all the beautiful stuff and I'm healthy and all that stuff. I'm like the last thing I need is to wake up with sunrise. But that's, that's just my personal preference.

Josh Rubin: 31:45

Yeah, I mean we're not teaching perfection, right, we're not teaching perfection. But here's the problem when you stay up late and we're not saying we don't stay up late, we do stay up late sometimes, not super late, but we went to a gala a few weeks ago and we're up to 1130, but our body runs on light and darkness. And when does the body repair? When does the immune system repair? When does the gut lining repair? When does the thyroid repair? It repairs at night, not because we're sleeping, though. It repairs because the body has darkness to let melatonin come out to play. That's if we saw sunrise, that's if we saw UVA to support that production. What does melatonin do? It drives autophagy right. So, as a client, my goal is to help people get to a place where they create a lifestyle that works for them, but it's also fun at the same time.

Josh Rubin: 32:35

Not everyone has to go to bed at 10 o'clock like we do. We understand that. But if someone says I have this issue and I go to bed at one o'clock, okay, you have to work on your circadian signaling to regulate all your hormones, all your neurotransmitters, all your glands and all your systems right, and we can't deny that. We can't just use food, we can't just use red light. You can't replace sunlight. So when we say one minute, it could be rolling down your window and it could just be like I get up and it's UVA time. Good, still go outside.

Jeannie Rubin: 33:05

It doesn't matter that it's on sunrise. I think that's a really important point to highlight is that there are many people that come to us very similar to Natalia. They don't get up early because they go to bed late. Right, their circadian biology is slightly off, so we have to work backwards a little bit to optimize that, because, again, all of these systems that we're talking about are circadian driven. They're all circadian systems. So if we want to optimize them, these are steps that we have to take. But I think the bigger message is let's shift the ratio away from being inside and exposed to non-native light to getting more exposure, and for some of us that might be an extra five minutes a day because we're not getting any, so limited. Any move in that direction is progress. It's moving us towards that a little bit more, and I think that's really true because a lot of our people can't do that.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 34:02

There's people who haven't slept for years and they don't want to get up in the morning.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 34:06

And we know the circadian rhythm is so important in regulating hormones and all that stuff. And at night it stimulates your human growth hormones and that's what repairs everything, in addition to everything that you guys already named. And it's hard to follow your body's circadian rhythm and if it wasn't hard, everybody would be doing that right, just like anything else. So it is hard. It's work in progress for me and for other millions of people. So I'm so glad we brought this up. So we know the circadian rhythm is important. We know the blood sugar is important, the key healthy nervous systems. What are some of the most common misconceptions people have when it comes to healing?

Josh Rubin: 34:48

I think people think they can heal fast. I think people think they can take supplements and heal. I know a lot of people don't agree with us on that but, like I said, we speak from experience and our clients' results because they can. I think people think that diet alone is all you need to do to fix yourself. Or I think that people think that when they have a specific symptom or system, that all they have to do is heal that system to heal.

Josh Rubin: 35:15

And what we're really asking people to do, slowly over time, is let go of all that Right and understand that people have taught you to step aside of your healing journey and watch someone heal you. Watch someone tell you what's wrong with you. Watch someone do all these labs to convince you what's wrong with you. Listen, when you're hard of hearts, you don't feel good, right. But if you have a hormone problem, do we really need to do a lab to tell ourselves that we have a hormone problem? What we're asking people to do and I'm not saying like we don't use them at the right time if need be, right, but I think if someone's 21, someone's I have cycle issues, I just don't see the need for a hormone lab.

Josh Rubin: 35:56

We know there's a hormone problem, but we're asking people to let go of that and realize that you have to put yourself in the driver's seat now. We're actually asking you to put yourself in the driver's seat, right, and let go of all these things and understand that the healing and the lessons are in the journey. That's what the healing is, and that you have to honor your story. And it takes time to heal. It takes a lifetime to heal. Obviously, we're gaining a lot of trust in our body and reconnecting with our body along the way, but it takes an entire life to truly heal, right, because once we heal from this, we're going to gain this awareness. Now we want to heal from this, and so forth.

Jeannie Rubin: 36:34

But I think there are foundational pieces, which I think is where we come from.

Jeannie Rubin: 36:39

Again, how do we learn to live and I said this earlier in a way that allows us to regulate in this, and that is through looking at what takes energy from us in our life, relationships, life, children, there's a number of things and then what gives it back to us, and that's very finite right, and the very things that give us that energy back.

Jeannie Rubin: 37:03

So how do we do those things in the best possible way to optimize the use of that energy coming in and how do we protect the very little bit that we have? So there's an exchange, day to day, teaching people how to navigate that and to maintain that regulation. Because as we begin to regulate from day to day, week to week, month to month, as I spoke to earlier we build resilience, we build metabolic flexibility, we provide the body the resources and the opportunity to heal in the way that it's naturally designed to do. We're creating that foundation, and how that looks for each person is going to be dependent upon their lifestyles and where they come from. That's the most important thing, because then now we have regulation, now we have a state that can receive information, process information, remove information that isn't necessary, whatever it might be. So if we're bringing hormones and we're bringing supplements in, we have a system that can receive that information with more Versus that chaotic state that is where most people are trying to heal.

Josh Rubin: 38:05

I want to add one more thing that I think the biggest misconception people are trying to heal. I want to add one more thing that I think the biggest misconception and we ask a lot of people to do this when they work with us or do our program is to get off social media, not delete your accounts. But if you're going to commit yourself to say, a program ours, our one on one is four months. Our nervous nervous system program, which is our like group, you could call it, is 90 days If you're going to commit yourself to yourself for 90 days, get off social media, right. Why? Because social media back in the day we were around when there wasn't social media, when we had a business. So we've seen it morph into this thing where everyone thinks it's a consultation and it's not. It's a conversation.

Josh Rubin: 38:42

You cannot find healing on an Instagram post and I think that's the biggest misconception. I think when a lot of people pull away from that and it's going to allow them to reconnect with their body again, allow them to build some awareness and fall in love with themselves again and focus on the most important thing in their life, which is themselves, not anything online, and I think a lot of people find a lot of freedom in that. I know it's hard. We own a business it's and it's hard to step away but at the same time, when you're truly trying to heal, you only have so much capacity. You need to make sure that you take that capacity and a lot of it goes to you their clients to get off social media during this healing journey and I absolutely love that.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 39:32

I may steal it and I'll give you guys full credit if I implement that with my clients, because I think it's truly genius. I think that we all need to well, not I know that we all need to recharge and turn off our phones. And, josh, going back to your point, you said healing takes longer than some Instagram accounts claim that 30-day detox, whatever you're detoxing, will heal, whatever the symptoms you have, which that's trigger for me. I almost get angry and I want to get involved and comment and I have to pull back. And knowing that for every movement and I have to pull back and knowing that for every movement there's going to be followers, it doesn't matter if somebody claims that the earth is flat. There are going to be thousands of people that are going to go after me and with messages threatening my life, saying I can't believe, you don't believe that the earth is flat.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 40:24

I know it takes a long time, like for Hashimoto's. It took a decade for my body to develop this disease because TPO antibodies show up decades before the actual diagnosis. So you cannot expect to be healed in 30 days or even sometimes 90 days. Sometimes for me, for most of my clients. It's a lifelong journey that we're on. We just want to just like your program, just like what my coaching is all about. We build a foundation to set people up for success. We don't just give a handout and say, okay, follow this for 30 days, we'll never see you again. No, it's all about understanding this, basic principles of healing. So we're talking about circadian rhythm and all that stuff. But for someone who really wants to improve their nervous system and health, are there any specific herbs or supplements that they can implement?

Josh Rubin: 41:23

In my opinion. No. Here's why and I know a lot of people disagree, and that's okay you cannot force, nudge, shift, push, supplement your body into regulation. You can't supplement yourself out of something you behaved your way into right. You can't take vitamin d to replace the sun. You can't take a supplement to fix the nervous system. Now here's the thing. There are people that will say yes, this supplement, I can't think of any. Maybe name one, but-.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 41:54

D, vitamin D.

Josh Rubin: 41:56

So vitamin D Now it's just like breath work.

Josh Rubin: 41:59

Is breath work going to regulate the nervous system? It does not. Does it calm the nervous system? Can it shift the nervous system? It can, but it can't regulate the nervous system right. Shift the nervous system? It can, but it can't regulate the nervous system right, because your environments, your habits, your behaviors dictate what your nervous system does. Think of a baby. Think of what babies are born. What polishes their nervous system, their environment? They don't have a fully polished nervous system. What polishes it? Their caretakers and their environment, right? And that's a huge topic in itself nowadays, of course. So that's what dictates our nervous system.

Josh Rubin: 42:32

So we can't take vitamin D and say you can regulate your nervous system with vitamin D, right? Number one it's one metabolite. Let's even say it's a healthy one, but it's not. It's one metabolite. Your body produces 17 to 18 metabolites of vitamin D. Number two you can step outside and get. It's not, it's one metabolite. Your body produces 17 to 18 metabolites of vitamin D. Number two you can step outside and get it for free. This is a huge topic, but we're not vitamin D people. Well, we are. You just need to go outside. But yeah, our opinion is you can't force your body into regulation. You have to change, create change, because your internal environment right, why do?

Josh Rubin: 43:05

people have low D, it's not because they're deficient in vitamin D. Body into regulation. You have to change trade. Change because your internal environment right. Why do people have low d? It's not because they're deficient in vitamin d supplements. Why are people low in vitamin d? We fear the sun. We wear layers, we wear sunscreen, makeup has sunscreen. We never go outside and we're under blue light 24 hours a day, taking something to replace a deficiency. Change the things that are causing the deficiency. That's how we look at it.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 43:34

Absolutely. Again, we're talking about the root cause. Why are you deficient? Now I did say vitamin D and you're like oh, that's a big one, that's a big topic. And I completely agree with you because, like in my Hashimoto's world, most of my clients are on vitamin D supplement or, like in my case, and that I'm not advertising but advocating for it A vitamin D shot that you do once every six weeks, a mega dose of vitamin D, only because my peeps with Hashimoto's, even the ones that live in Florida and spend the whole day in the sun, what happens? We don't convert the vitamin D that our skin receives.

Jeannie Rubin: 44:13

You know, why?

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 44:15

Tell me why.

Josh Rubin: 44:16

Yeah, and this is the problem. Most people go outside at UVB. Now, uvb, those UVB photons, are what basically help us convert these. That what is it? 70 hydrocholesterol plus vitamin D and sulfate to produce our vitamin D. In a sense, this is a complex thing, but it's truly UVB that allows our body to do that. But it's not a standalone. It's not go outside of UVB and you're going to replenish your D stores.

Josh Rubin: 44:48

The problem is no one testing active, and that truly that's like taking your tire pressure and your tires alone that you need a new tire. It's, in my opinion, it's one of the biggest things that people are missing, because it's that 125 OH that you need to actually test with it. It should be a two to one ratio. That's where it needs to be. If it's two to one, if your 120 of IOH is 40 or 50 and your 25 is 20, you're good to go. There's nothing wrong with it.

Josh Rubin: 45:14

Now here's what allows us to really utilize UVB it's getting out, especially in spring. It's getting outside at sunrise and UVA and exposing your skin to it, and then slowly increasing your time in UVB, starting in April, may, throughout the summer, and increasing your time in UVB why? Because that morning time, that sunrise, that UVA consistently allows your body to produce what's called melanin and uchronic acid. That's your body's own sunscreen, so you don't burn in UVB, so you don't have to wear sunscreen we don't anymore and it allows you to utilize that UVB without, let's say, the dangers of UVB, like everyone knows. Now is you get more of a regulation and then each year you do that, you get more and more regulation. People think I spent a summer outside. No, listen, they're 40 years old and they've been inside probably 90% of their life. It takes time to regulate that.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 46:12

But again, just like most people, yeah, which is the missing link?

Josh Rubin: 46:15

is that 125 OH to 25.

Jeannie Rubin: 46:18

And vitamin D gets away in this.

Josh Rubin: 46:20

It affects our cholesterol levels because we bypass that whole thing in the beginning. So if you don't use it, it starts to build up. Cholesterol builds up.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 46:28

That's why a lot of people with Hashimoto's have high cholesterol with normal diets Like I eat by the book and all that stuff.

Josh Rubin: 46:36

Well, yes, yeah, I mean, there's a lot more to that, for sure. But the other problem is people are taking it in the winter, and winter is not about vitamin D. If you went outside from spring through summer to like early fall, you have that bank account to get through the winter. So you change your diet to match circadian signaling and now you can support that bucket through winter, because winter is about melatonin. It's about autophagy, repair, regeneration. But what does melatonin do as well? It acts on the VDR receptors. So, honestly and this is our opinion again, sometimes, yes, we might sound like what you're doing doesn't matter. It does. Like you do what you do, you get great results and that's amazing. But the problem is, when you utilize that D, or you take the supplement in summer and in the winter, you start messing that all up in a sense, and that's a huge problem from. We could go on about it, but it works against us long term, in our opinion.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 47:34

And I love that you're sharing it, because I think more people need to understand this, the complexity of everything we're talking about and we're just barely scratching the surface. And, if you have time, a few minutes for rapid fire questions, just to have fun. Yeah, okay, favorite food to eat when you're stressed.

Josh Rubin: 47:56

I don't like stress. Eat, to be honest with you. But if my favorite food, if I could eat it is Italian food, like spaghetti meatballs all day, every day breakfast, lunch and dinner, give it to me.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 48:09

Love it, love it I think I'm with hamburger. Okay, coffee or tea.

Josh Rubin: 48:14

Coffee.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 48:16

What's one food you cannot live without, josh, I think I know what that is. You already said that, josh. I think I know what that is.

Josh Rubin: 48:22

You already said that I don't eat pasta a lot, but that would probably be pasta or Italian food.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 48:28

Tacos oh my God, I love tacos. Jeannie, we're on the same page. Most unusual food you've ever tried.

Josh Rubin: 48:42

I grew up in a Jewish household, so there was tongue gefilte fish, beef liver, so I was eating that stuff when I was young Chicken brains.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 48:52

I grew up on chicken brains from Ukraine. Okay, so if you could only eat one cuisine for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Josh Rubin: 49:00

Mexican, italian.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 49:02

How do you guys stay married?

Josh Rubin: 49:05

We eat Mexican, we don't eat Italian. That's how.

Jeannie Rubin: 49:09

Exactly.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 49:11

I love that. Okay, what is the best piece of nutrition advice you've ever received? Nutrition advice.

Jeannie Rubin: 49:19

We're trying to bring everybody back to moderation, because that's really what it is right.

Josh Rubin: 49:24

Yeah, I would say, and it becomes a little bit of a story. It's not long, I think. As a culture we're always like I want the next, I want the next. Even with certifications, right, you take a level one, you want level two. That's just how it goes. And when I taught for the Czech Institute, I taught like exercise coach level one in their NLC it was called NLC at the time, nlc one and two, and I was doing like seminars for them in shows. But I would see a lot of the same people and I'm like you just took level one a month ago.

Jeannie Rubin: 49:50

Why are you here?

Josh Rubin: 49:52

Like in HLC two, like you, haven't applied the information Right, and a lot of people do that. So when I got to Paul's check, level four which at the time there wasn't a lot of people that got there. It was a two week course, it was a lot of money and at the end we had to get up and be like what did you learn? Everyone spoke for 30, 45 minutes and I literally was up there for 30 seconds and I said I learned that I shouldn't have taken this course because what people need are the basics. And I learned the basics in level one and that's what people need. Without that, I can't use any of this stuff and that's what a majority of my people need. So that, to me, is we're missing the basics, and that's probably the most powerful piece of advice.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 50:35

I agree 100% with you because I think what we're missing in this generation of sick people is not the knowledge, it's the application of that knowledge. People constantly consume more and more information on every post online, each person. That is online business, right, we post two or three pieces of information a day and people consume, but there's no application of that knowledge. So, 100% agree with you. Now the last question.

Jeannie Rubin: 51:03

I have most annoying health trend right now I'm at a healing for the most part because I think most people are don't have the capacity for some of the practices that they're working with, and that's causing a lot of re-traumatization and weakening the system even more. So it's taking more energy than what somebody has and it's not moving them in that direction.

Josh Rubin: 51:26

I will say and this has been going on for a while, but we've seen it grow, because we've been in this industry a long time and grow and grow, and I think it's worse than ever. And this is no dig on anyone, but I think that as a culture, we poo Western medicine because all they want to do is lab and give us a medication, without listening to us, which insurance typically covers. But what's getting worse as a trend is, everyone is trying to play doctors. We're creating labs based on symptoms and disorders and the labs are getting more expensive and the supplements protocols are getting larger, and it's no different than Western medicine Again it's just, we have to start moving away from that and getting back to the basics, because philosophically it's no different than Western medicine.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 52:15

I agree. So you guys offer free trainings and you have this beautiful 90 days programs. How do people join? Or is it open? Is it coming up? Can you tell us a little bit about it so people can learn everything that you guys talking about?

Josh Rubin: 52:33

Yeah, so we have a YouTube we have. If you go to our website, we have a free nine series podcast. That kind of like introduces you to us and takes you through our methodology, but we give you action items too and it's obviously free and people love it. Right to find more about us, you can go to our instagram real food gangsters, or you can go to our website, eastwesthealingcom, because we have one-on-one coaching and we do have our 90-day nourish nervous system program. We have some other products too, but that those are like our two, like main things.

Josh Rubin: 53:02

The service system program is ongoing. People can join anytime. It's currently 50% off and it's honestly, it's our baby. It's something we love. We've been doing it for six years. We're very passionate about it because we get to teach this and share this with so many people and what we're really doing. Like you said, we're teaching people how to take information, personalize it, to apply it right, to create a transformation and the transformations that we see. Again, we see successes and wins. We're not saying, in 90 days you're going to heal 50 years of dysfunction, but we start to see wins and successes and changes in mindset and that's why it's something we're really passionate about, because for us it works.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 53:47

Amazing and I love that you're offering free trainings as a quick look inside what's in the paid program, that I love that people have access to you one-on-one. I think that's another missing part of a lot of people doing all this stuff and selling protocols. Where's the one-on-one? That's what some part of a lot of people doing all this stuff and selling protocols Where's the one-on-one? That's what some people love to sit down and spend an hour with you. Some people benefit from it drastically.

Natallia Sanzo RDN, LDN: 54:11

So I'm going to link all the information that you mentioned the free training courses. Your Instagram handle everything in the show notes so people can access it easily. Of course, they can message me or you guys if they have any questions. This podcast will be live in a week or two, so we'll, of course, announce it on all of our platforms. Josh, jeannie, thank you so much for dedicating this hour to share your wealth of knowledge, your beautiful approach to healing, your unique approach to healing. I think you gave very practical steps that people can start doing right now. Within the next 30 minutes, there can be a change.