Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to today's episode, where we dive into the intersection of nutrition and thyroid health. I'm thrilled to introduce our guest, priscilla Swan, also known as the Keto Girl. Priscilla is a registered dietitian nutritionist with a Master's of Science in Nutrition, and she is the founder of Keto Girl Nutritionists, a female-led nutrition coaching and consulting organization established in 2019. Her mission is to help women with hormone and thyroid conditions address the root cause of their health challenges, enabling them to lose weight, regain energy and reduce or eliminate the need for medication. Priscilla, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:43

Yes, we're so excited because today we will explore how the keto diet can be adopted to support thyroid health, particular for those with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. And, Priscilla, you will share insights on the benefits, challenges and practical tips for implementing a keto lifestyle tailored to individual needs. Right, and this conversation is promising to be both informative and empowering. But before we get started, Priscilla, can you share with us what brought you to this point in your career? Are there any health challenges you faced earlier that are still guiding you in your practice?

Speaker 2: 1:22

So it's definitely been a journey. All right, and just to clear the air, I don't personally have a thyroid condition or per se an established hormone imbalance diagnosed, but this does stem from my own personal journey of being in and out of the doctor's office, because I was born with a congenital heart defect and I had surgery as a baby and the doctor didn't think I was going to make it. And here I am. But part of that process was when I hit 12 years old. The doctor was so concerned, looking at me and also looking at my mom, who is overweight, and looked at me and said you can never gain weight or you'll die.

Speaker 2: 2:08

That was a little traumatic for a 12-year-old girl, and so I just was like, oh no, because a lot of my family members and history just come from being overweight, diabetics, heart disease. And so I was like, oh no, my mom was always dieting, couldn't crack the code. It felt like no matter what she did, and I just thought I need to crack this code because I need to have that chance in life to live my best healthy life without constantly dieting. And so this ended me to the journey of becoming a dietitian and I was like, okay, now I have the tool sets and I started my journey in the hospital like a lot of dietitians did Same Yep, and then I got into then dialysis and kidney failure.

Speaker 2: 2:58

And then I got familiarized, at least with the aspect of the thyroid, particularly the parathyroid, but just how everything you eat impacts the thyroid, your kidney health, and when you draw those labs it's like, oh, I know exactly what you were eating. And so I think that was like a light bulb in my mind, like this is exciting, like I can actually see this on paper mind, like this is exciting, like I can actually see this on paper, see that food truly does affect the whole aspect of the body. Well then I was like, okay, I don't think clinicals for me, I'm just I really wanted to work with individuals that really wanted that change. It wasn't just a hi, goodbye, didn't see them again, really didn't get to the roots, really see that change. So that's when I started to develop a private practice and work with women.

Speaker 2: 3:50

I naturally started to be inclined to follow the keto diet, and part of this was stemmed from partly just our education. Really are just our education. It goes in saying, hey, keto diet is only used for those that have seizures and it shouldn't be used for anything else, because that was when keto was starting to become really popular, like 10 years ago. And so I watched a little documentary on Netflix and it was all about the keto diet. And I said you know what? I'm just going to watch this. I'm going to then do the keto diet to see. You know, I'm just going to disprove it and say there's nothing here. And so once I started to do keto, after one month I was feeling so amazing. For me it was really just the mental health aspect, that clarity of mind, the energy, anxiety. I had struggled with a couple of panic attacks. Those were gone. I just felt the sensation of total peace and calmness and I didn't have to restrict what I was eating as well as far as eating the right foods. I was like this is empowering to be able to just to eat as much as I want till I'm full, not worry about the calories in, calories out. And so that was my personal journey of having the keto diet.

Speaker 2: 5:18

And so when I started working with women, I started implementing some aspects of keto and a lot of women that came to me were ones that said, hey, calories in, calories out, that's just not working for me. No, especially as we're aging. And I was getting women that had PCOS and they were finding relief and healing and getting off metformin, becoming pregnant. And then I was starting to get individuals that have a thyroid condition. And this one was a little trickier for me when I was in my practice. At first, because I was like, okay, we can't be too strict with keto, because then it backfires and they stop losing weight, they feel anxious, Sugar cravings come back. They shouldn't eat gluten or dairy, because I was following some of the concepts of the PCOS, where it's best not to eat so much gluten and dairy. So I was like, okay, they too don't do very good eating that. But then it was when we took out eggs. I had a client that just said eggs are bothering me, I feel inflamed. So I was like, let's. We took out eggs. I had a client that just said eggs are bothering me, I feel inflamed. So I was like, let's take out the eggs.

Speaker 2: 6:35

Crazy enough, as we started just to make these little tweaks and improvise, developing the method, bringing it cohesively together, building in a mindfulness which we'll all talk about, I'm sure, later on. It was so exciting because not only did they lose the weight, finally they ate in a mindful manner, no longer having to track religiously. They regained their energy. They felt amazing. They were sleeping through the night, they went back to their doctor and the doctor started to reduce these meds that they were on for their T3 or T4. And eventually, just within a matter of months, the doctor was taking them off their thyroid meds. And this was the same doctor that said hey, here's your thyroid meds. You're going to be on them for life. And he, of course, has to follow the labs and if the labs are elevated he has to reduce the meds. And that was just so exciting and empowering. So that's when I decided I really, really wanted to dedicate my practice to women with a thyroid condition, because they are so underserved and really there are no diets out there specifically for you.

Speaker 2: 7:40

As far as the weight loss, improved symptoms and actually being able to reduce get-off meds, that is where I feel like my calling in life has come from. For now, with my practice is to really dedicate it to women like yourself to really find true healing.

Speaker 1: 7:57

And you're doing such an incredible job. You have your own podcast and you have a very strong supportive community on Instagram and I'll make sure I'll leave all of your information in the show notes so people can reach out and follow and learn from you. But to go off of that, what you said, yes, it's so personalized and Hashimoto really doesn't have the protocol that you can follow, because we all have the same diagnosis Hashimoto's hypothyroidism but it manifests differently in each of us. So working with a professional like a registered dietitian is detrimental to your success, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 8:39

So you mentioned eggs that someone just said that eggs make me inflamed. Now I think I personally think that there's no life without eggs and I and I love eggs. But I also had a client who was getting extreme migraines and we did an elimination diet Because that's the only way to find out what foods you're sensitive to, because there is no food sensitivity test that will tell you that. So we did a proper, very carefully designed elimination diet and we found out that eggs were causing her extreme headache-like migraine and as soon as she cut them out she felt better. But that's like you know, this is a handful of clients that I have over hundreds of clients.

Speaker 1: 9:27

So, I never was like oh, let's all cut out eggs because they trigger some inflammatory response in some people. So I think it's so important to stress out the personalized approach to nutrition. Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Absolutely yeah, and so you're spot on, because a lot of women do come to me, yes, different diets in the past, but some have most likely in some way or form tried keto, and people oftentimes think that keto is under 20 gram net carbs and you have to eat all the fat, like 70 grams of fat.

Speaker 2: 10:30

You can't end your day until you've met your macros for fat, but made sure you didn't exceed your carbs and then a moderate amount of protein, and so, with that in mind, they usually come even more stressed and even more weight gain. And it's not that you know they didn't do keto per se right. They might've downloaded all the apps, followed the influencers that make all the keto dishes, but what I find is, um, it's they're not getting to the roots and it is actually stressing their body out more, because that's one of the hormonal issues I do see with a lot of clients is adrenal fatigue, and so you don't want to do anything too excessively so like working out all the time, fasting all the time, going strict keto all the time, because then that just makes your body even more stressed and want to close up, and then it causes the inflammation and then the insulin resistance and it's just a whole collage running together.

Speaker 2: 11:34

So that's usually the issue that I see when individuals first come to me.

Speaker 1: 11:38

So, yes, the definition of keto diet is 20 grams of carbohydrates or lower. But what we see in the research is, if you're following, if your keto diet is like 50 grams of carbs or around that, it brings out the same benefits as the ketogenic diet as we know it in a clinical setting. Exactly Right. And the keto diet was developed, like you mentioned, for epilepsy and that's when you have to follow less than 20 grams of carbohydrates. But, for our sake, when we're talking about improving hormonal balance, improving thyroid function and all the other metabolic markers, we can hover somewhere between like what? 50 grams. When we shift our body or when we start eating less carbohydrates, our body shifts into ketosis, right, and that metabolic shift can improve energy, stabilize blood sugar and reduce inflammation. And that's what we all, regardless of you have Hashimoto's or not. This is what we all, as women, strive for. Yes, right, it's like overall health. How can keto diet specifically benefit someone with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism?

Speaker 2: 12:55

So I always say it's you know, gentle, and like you mentioned, it's that happy balance, usually around the 50 to 35. If we doing net carbs, I say 35 to 50 grand. You know net carbs is perfect usually for most um, and so then taking that aspect of also anti-inflammatory is also key, and so I say it's a hodgepodge of keto and paleo. And then mindfulness. I had a whole podcast actually myself all about intuitive eating versus mindful eating. And intuitive eating is a great concept but you can't just get there overnight, not when you have an autoimmune disease and a hormonal imbalance. What I really expand upon more so is the mindful nature. It's a learned skill to be mindful. It doesn't just come to you overnight. You're developing and honing in on these skills.

Speaker 2: 13:59

So when I work with clients, I might say, hey, we need to get away from fasting at first.

Speaker 2: 14:04

We can use that maybe as a tool down the road.

Speaker 2: 14:06

But I want you to start just listening to your body having breakfast, lunch and dinner eating the right types of foods. So I'll say, hey, this is about the serving size of protein or non-starchy veggies, of fat, and then, as long as you're eating the right types of foods like that at each meal, eat till full and start noticing okay, can you comfortably go an hour, two hours, where you're still comfortably full? Are you noticing, hey, is your energy picking up or is it still low? Are sugar cravings increasing or decreasing? And so that's part of the strategy I really work with clients when we first get started is just honing in on what is hunger and fullness when you eat the right types of foods. That's the amazing part. With keto and being anti-inflammatory, it's hard to overeat, and so then it becomes so much easier to get accurate body cues and like, if you're eating just bread and pasta, it fuels the sugar cravings and you're like oh, I want more, versus when you're just eating protein, healthy fat and low carb veggies.

Speaker 2: 15:10

You're like I'm full, I'm good, and then when you start to see the scale go down, you start to feel good. It you know it's like a snowball it does and it makes you feel confident and it builds in that mindfulness like okay, I can keep doing this.

Speaker 1: 15:28

I think keto diet is one of the easiest diet to follow across all genders male, female, whatever you identify with because it keeps you full longer and so, we mentioned already, it balances your blood sugar. Female sex hormones. Keto diet can also lower inflammation marker, like C-reactive protein, and because you also worked at the hospital, we measured C-reactive protein. It was like a normal blood work.

Speaker 1: 16:01

As soon as somebody gets admitted, c-reactive protein gets drawn. So keto diet has been shown to lower the most important inflammatory marker that we can actually see. It's not just like, oh, I feel inflamed, let's measure your C-reactive protein. So keto diet can decrease C-reactive protein. It can actually modulate the immune system response, which can calm the overreactive immune system seen in us with Hashimoto's. It also supports gut health by reducing sugar intake. Just like you mentioned, we're eating less carbs, less refined, simple carbs. So we're supporting gut health by reducing sugar intake, which is a common trigger for what? Dysbiosis or leaky gut, the increased intestinal permeability, both of which are linked to autoimmune flares, regardless of if you have Hashimoto's or not. Again, because there are so many autoimmune conditions and people with just even rheumatoid arthritis are using keto diet to calm down the inflammation. So many great benefits.

Speaker 1: 17:15

Now, are there any common myths exist about the keto diet and thyroid health? Because I know there's like if you Google stuff or you get know, you get on one way or the other. There is like it's a polar opposite. So what have you seen in your community? Or questions?

Speaker 2: 17:33

Yeah. So we've kind of hit on like one of the main ones, like keto, is 20 gram net carbs or lower, right, and it's not. It's a range which is the beautiful aspect and we can even talk about later, like even carb cycling. That's part of the keto-esque diet, where it builds in sustainability, metabolism, all that great stuff. But another big one is fasting.

Speaker 2: 17:56

And this again comes from what do we do in our culture when we're told, hey, let's lose weight or I'm on a diet cake, we do everything black and white. We just get on the bandwagon and really, all right, I'm going to fast every day, because if I lost weight fasting 24 hours, I can fast for 72 hours. And then you're getting to this point where, if you think it works, you think more is better, so then why not fast every day? If you think it works, you think more is better, so then why not fast every day? Right, and that is where it's wrong. I always tell clients if it's working, stop, don't keep doing more of it and doing excess. We just stop at that happy place where it's just enough, and so that's such a good tip.

Speaker 1: 18:39

Yeah, if it's working, stop, Don't do more of it.

Speaker 2: 18:45

Exactly Well that comes back to that. Oh, I want to do it even faster because it does become like a drug. It's like a high, especially for women with a thyroid condition that have gone years just struggling and just wishing and dreaming to lose weight, feel great, and all of a sudden they get it. They're, they're really hooked and they want to expedite it and I'm like no, no, no, no. We want to keep it consistent, we don't want it to stop in just 20 days, not like the traditional diets. And so, going back to the fasting aspect, I always say that's when we first work together.

Speaker 2: 19:18

That's why I like to stop some of those bad behaviors, because the body is just so stressed and inflamed. So I say let's pause on the fasting and, um, really focus on the basics, the mindfulness, eating, the right types of foods, see that consistent weight loss, start feeling better. And then we start to re-implement the fasting. But I usually say you know, one to three times max and let's keep it to like times max, and let's keep it to like, you know, 16 hours and nothing in excess. But also listening to your body, knowing is my body becoming hangry at me, am I getting a migraine and are my sugar cravings increasing. So we we dive all into. How is your body receiving fasting? Even to know is it too stressful right now for it? But it can fit. But everything gentle when it comes to a thyroid.

Speaker 1: 20:08

I absolutely 100% agree. I personally have been fasting for probably four to five years and I do 16-8, meaning I'm fasting for 16 hours. I'm eating within my eight-hour window. Did I lose weight? No, because what people get confused is that you know, intermittent fasting is not the same as calorie restriction. You can still get all of your calories and nutrition, which is the most important thing here. Right, it was two dieticians talking. So we need to make sure we get all our vitamins and minerals within an eight-hour period. But for me, fasting it has changed the way my digestive system works. It improves drastically Even without drawing any labs. I didn't do blood work before and after and say, hey, look what fasting has done for me. I feel better, my skin improved because I let my digestive system relax and be empty and clear all the toxins so the stool doesn't just sit in your digestive tract. That's why I'm doing that. I don't have any problems with blood sugar, but if somebody has hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia they have to be very careful.

Speaker 2: 21:22

Sure they can still fast.

Speaker 1: 21:23

They just have to adjust and, careful to you know, they can still fast. They just have to adjust and maybe do fasting or stop eating like at 4 pm and then eat as soon as they wake up to prevent hypoglycemia, low blood sugar in the morning. So there are always variations, right, and we have so many tools in our box to kind of to adopt anything, anything that people, because if a client comes to you and they want to follow, I don't know, a vegan diet or even this keto diet, right, we can find a way to make this diet healthy or to adapt to their lifestyle.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Talking about vegan, that's been a fun one, but I also want to be honoring of them and their lifestyle choice of being a vegan, and so definitely I enjoyed creating meal plans and coming up with the right little method where, hey, you're going to have to be higher carb, you can't just be keto, and what does that look like. But I love that. Ultimately, it's what's your goal. It's not my method, it's healing your condition is ultimately what I always tell all my clients at the end of the day, with fasting or carbs, if we need to adjust that, it's okay. Don't feel like you're failing the diet. It means that we just need to tweak it.

Speaker 1: 22:47

I just thought about. Another myth is that keto diet actually suppresses thyroid function, and I mean there's a mixed research, but what we see in the best like meta-analysis control trials, is that ketosis can actually stabilize thyroid hormone production by improving first is what? Insulin resistance and reducing, like we talked about already, systemic inflammation. So those two things do improve thyroid function. That's a fact. But again, it's important to avoid overly restrictive calorie intake, because I do agree that low-calorie diets do suppress thyroid function, but it's not keto, because you can still do 2,000 calories on keto easily.

Speaker 2: 23:37

Yeah, absolutely, and part of that, yes, is that idea. Oh, it's going to make my thyroid labs worse, and you know keto will, if also you're eating still other inflammatory foods that hey, that's when also taking that food out for a period of time to see okay, your labs are improving, that inflammation is going down. Now let's retest, after we've healed the gut, to reintroduce some of these foods and see how your body does as a result.

Speaker 1: 24:06

Exactly so. We're talking a lot about carbohydrates. How many carbs? And we said, oh, somewhere around 50, 30 to 50, you know, plus minus, depending on your goals. Is there any ideal macronutrient ratio that you recommend for people with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism? When it comes to like protein, fat and well carbs, we kind of establish.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Oh gosh, I haven't exactly. It's been a while since I looked at the ratios, but as a general rule of thumb, the carbs usually are around 35 to 50 gram net carbs, and then I usually keep protein anywhere from, you know 70 to 100 grams of protein and then around 90 to 100 fat give or take, and I always you know like I'll have clients to get my meal plan. I don't do customized meal plans, I've done the meal plans all straight through. Everyone usually loves all the meal plans, but when I talk to to them, that's when then I say, okay, this is just a general idea. Some meals you might eat less or more. You might have less at breakfast, but you'll eat more at lunch. And it's the idea of finding that rhythm, that cycle with your hunger and fullness, as long as you're eating the right types of foods?

Speaker 1: 25:23

Absolutely, I agree. Now I do personalized meal plans, so I work with each client to build a meal plan around what they're already eating. We're just improving up on and we're managing or adjusting the macros. Because I believe in an adoption of ketogenic diet, we do need to lower our carbohydrate intake, especially of processed foods, and we can have a healthy adoptive keto diet by incorporating healthy fats.

Speaker 1: 25:57

We don't need to be eating a ribeye every single day 20 ounces, because it comes with a lot of saturated fats. Every single day, 20 ounces, because it comes with a lot of saturated fats. We want to include omega-3s, healthy fats like avocados and flax seeds, and olive oil. I love doing personalized meal plans because some people react very well to following a very I don't want to say strict plan, but like a step-by-step here's exactly what you're eating breakfast, lunch and dinner and for some people it's like it takes the thinking process away, but I know it doesn't work for everyone. So I feel like your approach is more like hey, here's guidance. Hey, let's start listening to your body, let's start thinking outside of the box.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Yeah, and absolutely. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. When I first started my practice, I was like meal plans people still want meal plans, really. So I finally found this amazing meal plan system that I use and I'm like okay, this this does what I need it to do and clients love it because you're exactly right. This does what I need it to do and clients love it because you're exactly right. You have those individuals. They feel like they've failed every diet and so they want to make sure that they're following it right, seeing that success and then getting their wings learning to fly. So then when they go out to eat, they're like OK, I think I can do that you know without a meal plan, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 27:25

But then you also have the other individual. It's kind of like the rebellious personality, like you aren't going to tell me what to do, I just want to follow the concepts. You just tell me what types of foods and I'll do my own thing. Versus. Sometimes we're like if you give me a meal plan, I'm going to feel like I'm failing it all the time and so, because it's hard.

Speaker 1: 27:44

It's hard to eat exactly what someone told you to eat, even though it's based on your current food intake. But again, like you know, like we said, some people thrive on this and others rebel against it. Yeah, so I'm glad we're kind of offering both sides of the world and you know people can pick and choose, because options you know give people options and they will find a better way to support their needs.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Exactly, yeah, a lot of people, when they go on keto diet, they start eating a lot of processed foods. That says keto on the package. So what are the some fats and how do they play a role in hormone production or how do they influence our health and why do we need them?

Speaker 2: 28:33

So fat, just in general, it's the overlooked guy. It was demonized for so long and we can get into all that research about paid research and not really looking at all the research back in the day in the 1990s when a lot of it came out 1980s, um, but it's having its comeback, fortunately. But it's still I'm seeing like with my women that are like 50 plus. They were really during that diet period during that time. So it's really retraining that brain saying don't be afraid of fat, it is your friend when you eat the right type of fat, because research shows even that. There's a lot of studies, even one that came out about saturated fat back in 2020 by the University of Cardiology, and they found that when individuals went low carb and had saturated fats, they saw the best HDL, low LDL, they had amazing heart health versus it's more, they whole mess of diabetes, heart disease, bad LDL elevated, and so that's just another amazing tool. I just tell clients that as you're going low carb, your healthy fats, the saturated fats, will not be affected, as long as you're really listening to your body and not going crazy with the carbs. Um, but I love all of oils, I love ghee, butter and I love. I always say you know, even cook with the fat in the meat and eat that, because that's that can count as a fat source.

Speaker 2: 30:22

Um, and of course my favorite are avocados. That can count as a fat source. And of course my favorite are avocados. They have such a calming effect. There's magnesium in them. There's so much healthy fat. Sometimes clients that really struggle with even past trauma, ptsd I do maybe put them on a little more keto S diet because there's a lot of research there for trauma. But exactly, and the conversion that's going on to help minimize those triggers, and I say, have that avocado before bed, you'll start sleeping better. And they do. And I'm like this is my bedtime medicine. I'm like absolutely.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Yes, and fat actually regulates hormone production because, like fats from flax seeds, chia seed, mct oil or even butyrate, which is a short chain fatty acid, all that, or even like coconut oil right, can help reduce inflammation and it supports cell membrane health, which is crucial for hormone receptor function. So these fats have been shown to provide, like clean, steady energy for those with fatigue and it also, like you said it like, calms the brain. It gives this steady energy so you don't have highs and lows, and because that has been like a blood sugar or even hormonal highs and lows has been linked to depression, anxieties.

Speaker 2: 31:40

That's what we need in our life is more peace and calm, less anxiety, Because I think we always say, oh, it's an anxiety medicine that I need for my depression, anxiety, my panic attacks and a lot of the time, a lot of the research is actually pointing to diets and how that can just be the answer. The long-term answer to it's not actually an anxiety problem. It's an inflammation problem where that gut brain barrier and what's going on there as well.

Speaker 1: 32:08

Exactly, absolutely agree. There's such a connection and, speaking of a connection between gut-brain barrier, we know that gut health is a major consideration in Hashimoto's. So how does keto impact gut health and what should people be aware of?

Speaker 2: 32:36

So when following that anti-inflammatory approach, what I oftentimes see is it really helps heal that inflammation. Because I always say it's a conversion issue, at least for sure with hypothyroidism, because when you take T3, you're taking that as a medication, right, because there's the conversion issue of our T4 to T3, but most of that conversion happens in the gut and in the liver and when you're inflamed it's not happening like it should.

Speaker 2: 33:00

And that's why, when you go to the doctor like, why are my T3 levels so low? And the doctor's like, let's just keep upping your T3. And essentially you're overdosed on the T3 medication.

Speaker 1: 33:12

And it gives you anxiety and jitters, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 33:15

And you feel crummy. Yes, trust me, I know, I know, and so that's. That's. The beauty is, as we heal that inflammation, now your T4 is finally converting no problem to T3. And so when clients go back to the doctor, the doctor's like holy cow, you are like hyperthyroid and that's like, yes, because they're over-medicated.

Speaker 1: 33:41

Now let's start reducing that medication so their labs can be normalized finally with diet really so keto diet has a huge effect on our brain health, on our gut health, liver health. It improves lower carbohydrate intake, decreases fat stored in the liver, improving liver health and hence improving conversion of T4 to T3. Also, keto diet can benefit gut health by reducing, like we mentioned already, sugar intake and processed foods intake, which lowers harmful gut bacteria in yeast overgrow Right, because that's like it's very common gut dysbiosis in people with Hashimoto's and PCOS. But it's so important to when people get on a keto diet, it's so important to include fiber-rich, low-carbohydrate vegetables, gut microbiome, because if you go on, yes, you can survive and live happily ever after, just on eating, you know, 20 grams per day, but your fiber intake is going to be too low to support your gut microbiome. That affects you know what is it? 70% of your immune system lives in the gut.

Speaker 2: 35:02

Well, and what's the research saying now that fiber is nature's ozempic, essentially, and they're not wrong. I feel like in our society we hardly eat fiber and the keto diet, naturally, is very low in fiber. I find so I do. When individuals join, they're like, oh my gosh, my gut's not used to this. I'm going to the bathroom all the time. I'm like there's going to be an adjustment for sure, as your gut's getting used to this and normalizing and finding where's that happy place of fiber. But there is that adjustment for sure, but it is such healing for the gut for sure.

Speaker 1: 35:41

Yes, and as we increase fiber intake and we can get 25 to 30 grams of fiber on the keto diet if we include non-starchy high fiber vegetables. So all our carbs can come from vegetables and whole grains, and it doesn't matter, it can be gluten-free whole grains, they just have to include the shelf around the actual grain that contains all the fiber. So done right. I think keto diet can be great for gut health, but if you go real, the regular keto diet, I think it will destroy your gut health and with Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism, with slow metabolism, a lot of people struggle, including myself. I used to struggle with chronic constipation and to remedy that you have to bring up your fiber intake and fluid intake along with that, because having high fiber intake and low fluid intake will cause constipation. So it's, like you said, that perfect balance. You're just going to have to figure it out and test it on yourself.

Speaker 2: 36:51

Yes, absolutely, and that's what I tell my clients. As they progress, they get their tool set and they start seeing progress and, honestly, when they show up to a call, I'm like, well, you tell me, tell me what your plan is. They have all this knowledge and it's just reiterating, having them listen, evaluate, and they start being their own coach and saying, well, my body's feeling like this. I think, based upon this, I should do that, and usually I'm just sitting there and like, yep, you're right, and just re-instilling that confidence that, okay, you finally have that. You're the researcher, you know your body best. And I think that's a huge point to drive on with, especially so many individuals with a thyroid condition. They leave the doctor's office feeling crazy, like they're getting gas lighted and just told no, you're normal, just eat less, your labs are normal, everything's fine. And you're thinking I'm beside myself, am I a crazy person? And just reinstating no, you're not crazy, we just need to dive deeper.

Speaker 1: 37:55

Yes, dive deeper with somebody who specializes in this condition. So you know, for someone who wants to try a keto diet, what would you say to them if they're worried about this fatigue? You know the keto flu, or the first like, because you're taking away carbohydrates, which is an energy source. So what would you say to somebody who's afraid to start keto diet?

Speaker 2: 38:21

Yeah. So I've learned the best approach for a lot of my clients is, if you've come from just regular, you know having your moderate carbs. I like to ease my clients into keto instead of just overnight, let's fast and let's be in ketosis in three days. Just start going lower carb, like a hundred grams, still having your starch and still having some fruit. Start noticing how your body's feeling and they're like, oh, on board. Because they're like, oh, I have more energy, I'm feeling good. And then we go into the next week. We're like, okay, let's do a fast, let's get your body in ketosis, and their energy might go down a little bit. But I found that it's less dramatic, less severe, like the keto flu as a resort of going lower carb at first and taking it easy. And some individuals I say, hey, if we need to extend that to another week, we'll go at your pace. You know your body, maybe your lifestyle's busy, you don't have to go keto all at once.

Speaker 1: 39:23

I agree. I agree. The other tips and tools that I give my clients is that I tell them to drink a lot of water to flush out everything that is kind of stored in their cells, because with ketosis your body is releasing energy from your fat cells and it uses your fat cells or stored energy in the fat cells and with that released a lot of toxins. Everything that has been stored for years in those fat cells gets released. So we need to flush it all out.

Speaker 1: 39:56

So staying hydrated drinking electrolytes is a great way to, especially when you start fasting. So you're not eating foods, but you're being active, so replenishing those electrolytes is a key. And another calorie intake, like don't go keto and 800 calorie diet. This is a disaster waiting to happen. So in the long term, keto offers improved energy by stabilizing blood sugar and reducing inflammation, but it has to be like, like you said, you can't do it cold turkey.

Speaker 2: 40:33

No no, yeah, for most individuals. No, I mean, I did, I was like I was just ready to do it. And so there are those you know, select individuals that are just like I'm going to do it and I get you If you're ready for you, if you're ready for it, you're ready for it.

Speaker 1: 40:47

But I have found in most instances it's let's take it slower, yes, easy and figure out your way. Um, now are there any specific supplements you recommend for someone on a keto diet to like support thyroid health?

Speaker 2: 41:02

good question, so usually a lot of individuals come to me on lots of supplements, right, lots of all the things, and there are only just a couple supplements. I would suggest prior to getting to the root, because what happens is oftentimes, see, people are just over supplementing, just like over medicated, and it's. There's so much inflammation in the gut You're not fully absorbing the nutrients and the supplements either, so you're just going to burn yourself out taking and doing all the things. So I usually say, if you don't feel much better on this supplement, let's put it aside for now. And you know, maybe vitamin D and ovacetol, which is a great natural supplement for individuals.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Yes, I love that one, but other than that, like that's about it, because I usually say, after we, you know, maybe three months, we can redraw your nutrient panel as well. Iron, zinc, white red blood cells as well and just see how everything is.

Speaker 2: 42:05

And if you're still deficient, then definitely you know, we can put you on a supplement. But if you know, that's usually when you start really absorbing the nutrients found in food naturally because they are still eating a lot of great healthy veggies they usually find, hey, it's not a problem no-transcript, but you know, actually I see that iron is improving on the keto diet because people are eating more animal-based, like meats and stuff which is iron is very bioavailable there.

Speaker 1: 43:15

So we kind of lose the need for iron supplementation, which is a great thing. But another thing like I would add is a probiotic and digestive enzymes.

Speaker 1: 43:27

Just to support, you know, with probiotics, to support gut health with decreased, you know, carbohydrates and maybe fiber intake. But digestive enzymes I think they help when we increase protein in our diet, because 100 grams of protein that's a lot for a lot of people and I feel like it sometimes feels heavy on your stomach. So adding digestive enzymes, with or without HCL in it, can be beneficial. But again, it's like a trial and error, or I like to say trial and improvement. You try it, don't like it, I mean. But these are like harmless supplements.

Speaker 2: 44:05

Yeah, absolutely, it's hard to overdose on those, the only time I is if someone's on a selenium supplement. I want to know, because on all my meal plans I'm a huge advocate of Brazil nuts. Just having a couple of those they meet your nutrient requirement for selenium. But if they're on selenium supplement and they prefer that, then I just say don't eat the Brazil nuts because we don't want the selenium toxicity.

Speaker 1: 44:31

Exactly, and it's very easy to get, and actually too much selenium can cause thyroid inflammation and can cause hair loss, so you have to be very careful. Again, if somebody takes a multivitamin, it usually provides like 80% of your selenium needs, and if you eat a nut or two Brazil nuts a day, then you'll at 100% so it yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 44:54

It will have to be like to to cause a thyroid inflammation and hair loss. You'll have to take selenium you're like 500% of your daily needs for days or maybe even weeks. It's like a chronic overdosing. You can't take it for three days and think like, oh my God, this is going to cause my hair loss. It doesn't Now, my you know hair loss. No, it doesn't Now. The last question I have is that, like for women with Hashimoto's, do you suggest any adjustments in how we approach keto diet, because you know it was like with periods with you know I think you mentioned cyclic, yeah, so can you expand on that.

Speaker 2: 45:37

I have usually found that individuals that have Hashimoto's versus hypothyroidism, the symptoms are just a little more pronounced. So, like your sugar cravings are just a little more, or the bloating, the body aches and pain are more pronounced versus someone that has the hormonal hypothyroidism right, so your body is just much more inflamed. It's an autoimmune disease that just really wreaks havoc on the entire body even more so. And so I mean just today I had a client she had started with me in September and it's not even November. She brought her antibodies, tpo, down from over 200 to now 13.5. And that's just a matter of less than two months and all she's been doing is taking that gentle approach that I had been mentioning with my Hashimoto clients.

Speaker 2: 46:33

At first, I do want them to eliminate the eggs, even if they don't think they have that problem, because I've seen that be the difference night and day of moving the antibodies significantly. And it's just. There is just very little research, but I grabbed hold of it. That said, eggs can be both anti-inflammatory and pro-inflammatory. So yeah, they can be amazing healthy for individuals that have something like PCOS with no thyroid condition. But I have found, especially those with an autoimmune disease, that eggs. Initially. We need to remove that to really heal a lot of the inflammation in the body. So that's like one of the biggest ones.

Speaker 2: 47:17

And then just integrating that mindful structure where sometimes some of my Hashimoto clients might do a little better with a little more carb, anywhere from 50 to a hundred grams versus under 50 grams, cause, it's again, we don't want to stress their body out too much, we want to be that. You know, the more extreme, the more stressed and inflamed the body is, the more gentle approach we want to take. And then carb cycling. I think that one is huge with clients Usually after like the first month.

Speaker 2: 47:49

I like to reinstate that where they have a couple days a week where they can have a higher carb day. They have their gluten-free carbs, they have their fruit, a couple alcoholic beverages if they want to, because we want to build in that sustainability, because we want it to feel like, hey, I'm not giving up my life and we're not in that black and white, we're living in the gray, still enjoying life at the same time. And I've seen that be a huge aspect of keeping the metabolism optimal, keeping it boosted. I always say the metabolism, it's super smart, it catches on. So if we can keep it guessing, that's where it's at. So the same thing with exercise fasting we want to keep it in a different rhythm and a cycle, not in a constant day.

Speaker 1: 48:33

Stagnant aspect yes, yes, because every day is different and your eating habits should not be identical, going from day to day. But going back to, you mentioned TPO antibodies, decreasing TPO antibodies. We don't have that much research on it, but the little research that we have shows that a gluten-free diet and a lower carbohydrate diet those two things influence your TPO antibodies levels. So I say it's always a good thing to try, you know, a lower carbohydrate diet, a keto diet, to lower your TPO antibodies. And you mentioned women with PCOS.

Speaker 1: 49:15

There was a clinical trial done, one of the best studies we have on women with PCOS. It shows that a keto diet followed for short term meaning I think they followed for like between five weeks and 24 weeks a short term keto diet. Term keto diet improve all the PCOS markers. We're talking about female sex hormone. You know SABG, testosterone levels. So that was a beautiful diet and that's when it's kind of. I looked into a keto diet like hey, we can probably adopt that for PCOS clients with Hashimoto's and in that study women followed. They were eating 50 grams of carbs per day. So that's why I feel like this is a good starting point and you can go down lower or you can go up from there.

Speaker 1: 50:11

Yeah, absolutely Well, priscilla, I think this was an incredible conversation and listeners, I hope this episode has inspired you to think differently about how nutrition, specifically a tailored keto approach, can play a role in managing Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. Priscilla, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and walking us through not only the science but also practical ways to make keto work for individuals with Hashimoto's. Your approach truly highlights how personalized and or personalization and mindfulness can transform health outcome.

Speaker 2: 50:55

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 50:57

Yes, of course, and we would be lucky to have you for another episode. You know we'll pick a topic, or maybe we'll let the listeners or, if they're watching on YouTube, ask questions and maybe we can cover it in our next episode. Absolutely Fantastic. Well for everyone's listening. If you're curious to learn more about Priscilla and her work, be sure to check out her website it's ketogirlnutritionistcom. And, of course, make sure you go on her Instagram, keto Girls Nutritionist. She shares incredible tips, recipes and guidance to help women just like yourself take charge of your health. And if you found today's episode helpful, please don't forget to share it with a friend who might benefit from this information or who struggles with Hashimoto's and or PCOS. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to rate and review this podcast, because it helps us reach more people right and continue bringing bringing you these insightful conversation. Thank you for tuning in and until next time, stay nourished.